Good Medicine For Lions

15 replies [Last post]
admin
admin's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/07/2010

Been working up a load for a project, M1895 Winchester, 1929 build. Almost no wood left, Ace did the furniture before he handed it off to me, I cleaned it, had it blued, added the Providence Tool peep sight, and have been working up a good load for it. 
405-1

405-2

405-3

Had terrible SD's with factory loads and H4198, finally worked up to 55gr varget under a 300gr Hornady pill and got 
what I was looking for:

405-4

405-5

 The saying "Punishes at both ends" may not have started with this rifle, but it applies for sure. 
405-6

.223, .308, .405, and 45-70
405-7

Chris3755
Chris3755's picture
Offline
Joined: 08/02/2010
Great Rifle!

Looks like you've been busy. Also looks like it must push a bit on the shoulder without that padding. Chris S

admin
admin's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/07/2010
Thanks for reminding me

Ordering a butt cushion for it today!

Chris3755
Chris3755's picture
Offline
Joined: 08/02/2010
By the way-

Happy New Year.
What are  you going to buy for cushioning? A Pad or something exotic.
Chris S

admin
admin's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/07/2010
Happy New year

Well, thinking...
Electrical tape and lambskin looks a bit tacky but functions well, nothing is going to be period correct, so ordered a slip on Pachmayr Decelerator I can throw on for range work and remove when showing it off. 
I have one of their pads on my .338 WM works great. 
Pac

Mak
Mak's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/01/2011
405 WCF

Hey Al, was this an original 405, or a rechamber project?
Keep in mind, these rifles were only intended for shooting with your hind legs engaged. Today, we seem to be under the impression that removing as much of the human element as possible results in the clearest indication of what a gun is capable of. Well, ok, but isn't a rifle intended to be wielded by a competent human?
I confess that I secretly wish I could enjoy a 405 project like the one you brought us here. Best wishes.

admin
admin's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/07/2010
Correct

Original circa 1929 405 according to the serial number.
Took a while to figure out how to load it, seems the best option is to push straight down with the rim with shell 90 deg to the bore in a little rear of the center of the magazine, slide back as far as it will go maintaining the vertical orientation, "Flick" the pointy end down, repeat. I was having the darnedest time until I saw that on a youtube video. Trying to load like most other top fed magazine type actions just didn't work,  painful  and the shells didn't chamber reliably. 

Mak
Mak's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/01/2011
Rimmed Rounds

The 1895 requires rimmed cartridges to be staggered in order for it to feed properly and avoid jams. Rims should be close to each other, tight in the magazine for best results.
Winchester actually offered an illustration of the procedure in one of their manuals, which was how I learned to load the 1895. Do it right, and it works every time.
The reason I asked if it's original, is because the original rifles had a different groove depth from the modern Miroku versions. Ammunition and components available today seem to be primarily designed for the Miroku guns, and so modern components need to be chosen with care.
Anyhow, enjoy her for she is, a mighty gun from a better time. I'd join you if I could.

admin
admin's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/07/2010
Always welcome

If you find yourself up on the north end of the left coast.

admin
admin's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/07/2010
Had it out again last weekend

Hind legs engaged, put 4/5 on the 12" target at 200 yards. Then swang by the hospital for a MRI on my shoulder. 

Mak
Mak's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/01/2011
Good One

Al, I certainly hope your humor is shining through here, and you didn't need doctoring, but if you did, there are few better ways to get there than with a classic Winchester and a mighty cartridge.

admin
admin's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/07/2010
MRI guns

Yes, Humor. 

Mak
Mak's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/01/2011
Just thinkin'

Speaking of old times, one of the methods deployed to actually enjoy powerful rifles was to work up handloads with cast bullets.
Now I am aware that hysterical gun grabbers have made this option difficult for some of us, but if you can indulge in this way, there are some pretty capable cast pills available from places like Montana Bullet Works, and last I checked both Unique and Trail Boss are available.
This might be a path to enable shooting enjoyment without questioning one's sanity.

admin
admin's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/07/2010
Reduced Recoil loads

Believe me, I tried a few, trail boss being one of them. I have real consistent results with  TB in a 45-70, laser cast 405 gr pill, sub sonic @ just over 1000 fps,  but could not find  a lead/ light loading combination that had the same consistency in the 405. Granted I didn't try every combination possible, but all experimentation pointed towards the slower rifle powder I had published data for (and on my shelf, Varget vs 4895, 4198)  pushing a jacketed 300 hornady pill at a rapid rate. Factors probably twist rate, bore dia, groove depth, freebore, who knows. Once I got to something with constant velocities and good accuracy, loaded 4 boxes (Lifetime supply) and started on the next project, progressive press pistol caliber case trimming...

Mak
Mak's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/01/2011
Lead loading

Well, I can understand trying a few loads and getting frustrated. You may recall that I asked if you had an original Winchester barrel, or a Miroku. Many, but not all real Winchester barrels slug to .413". You might ask why, and for the answer one need look no further than Mr. Lee Jurras. He was the owner of Supervel ammunition, back in the day he used a slightly undersized bullet for greater velocities at standard pressures. Well, Winchester did the same thing even earlier with the .405, which is actually a .411 diameter. The jacketed bullets of the day were pretty soft, so they would slug up some, but that undersized pill would not be subject to much drag.
Two things when loading lead in rifles are super critical, bullet diameter and powder selection. Some powders that have worked in the past, are IMR 3031, H4895, and Unique. Yeah I know, these are all powders from before the computer age, but they are still around because they work.
Anyhow, I have a great irrational love for the old Winchesters, and I just think they are magnificent guns. I don't have a 1895, but I do know they can shoot, and I do wish I did own one. 
Anyhow, jacketed bullets are fine. Near as I can tell, any shooting is good shooting in today's world.

admin
admin's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/07/2010
Been lucky

Interesting information, Mak, thanks. I wouldn't use the word "Frustrated"  maybe "Impatient" would more describe my load workup process... 
Typically the calibers I shoot lead out of I have found a commercially available bullet that works well after one or two trips to the range without slugging the barrel or special sizing/ hardness needs. This one is a bit more of a challenge. May get back to some more trial and error in the future, may just call 'er good. So many bullets, so little time...